Make Money Online Update


ADMIN EDIT 2016: This post is from my original blog (Make Money Online with Seo .com) from way back in 2008 when I first learned internet marketing.

Things on the Internet Marketing front have radically changed since these old posts of mine.

Making money online, SEO, marketing, the software and pretty much everything has evolved.

I’ve imported all the old posts from the old blog for archival sake. 

Some of the information is still relevant (and the posts are a kick to read), but many of the specific SEO strategies and quick make money online ideas I had back then have changed.

SO please keep this in mind when reading. 


Ok, time for another update on my MMO.

I’m still working my job, somehow. I’m not exactly sure why – I make several times more online than I do at work. At this point, I think I’m probably losing a lot of money by staying at work, as I could at least double or triple my productivity (adding another 8-10 hours a day of work makes a difference). I’m hoping to make that move in a few months though.

Any of you who reach the point where you are making enough to quite your job will probably face the same issues.

Ok, let’s look at these updates.

Clickbank Snipers

Lo and behold, I’ve had my first Clickbank “sale.” It’s been about 2 months in coming. When I saw this first sale, the angels in heaven were  trumpeting and I ended up doing one of those Ashley-Simpson-gets-kicked-off-SNL dancing jigs — in a place where no one could witness it, of course.


You will notice I have one sale for 1.83.  This is one of those try it for 14 days for less than 2 bucks and we charge your credit card 100 bucks a month for life scams when you forget to cancel (and folks, you should cancel if that’s you who bought that product — got help you if you believed my bullshit sales pitch). So, in 14 days (less now), we’ll see if that person actually wizens up to this fact. Well, for the sake of the 75 bucks I’ll get, let’s hope they don’t.

I seem to be getting about 200-250 hops a month (I deducted some hops from a non CB sniper source). You will also notice there is another sale there — but that’s non-sniper related.

Note: “hop” is Clickbank’s name for when someone clicks on your affiliate link. In my case, people click on the link and end up on the merchant’s site. I find for every 100 people you get coming to your site, you may get 5-30 hops. This can, of course, vary depending on your sales copy, nice choice, etc.

I have a friend who sells 2-3 CB products a day with 400-500 hops each day, so considering I’ve probably had a grand total of 500-600 real hops in two months, the “sale” is in line with expectations. Your sales will depend on the quality of your cover letter and how responsive your market is. If you end up in the wrong market, or sell the wrong product, your CTR for sales is going to be crap. My 1 sale with 500 hops is < .02 CTR – pretty damn crappy. Keep in mind that you can still make money with low CTR sales if you have enough traffic. My trickle traffic is clearly not cutting it here. To find some success with these 20 or so sites I have, I will have to SEO them to the top of the google search for the main keyword.

Now, since my CTR is shit low, this tells me that my cover letter is shit, the affiliate product sucks, or the market is unresponsive, or I simply don’t have enough traffic for trickle traffic sales. My sniper site format is effective – I have a few friends using the same format and making thousands. I think it comes down to the market and traffic. It looks like I can only expect a sale every month or two with my traffic. Let’s say that’s 6 sales in a year. Potentially 120-400 bucks from those sales. Enough to cover the domain costs at least, but not enough to buy that brand new Porsche I was looking at the other day…

Solutions: More Traffic, Different Niches, Different Affiliate Products, Different Monetization



More Traffic

The More Traffic can be solved by actually doing some SEO on these — something I completely neglected — or by creating  a zillion more of these sites. This is a case where I don’t feel the volume approach is a good investment of my time. Say I create 200 sites — I may only potentially see about 133 hops a day. It could take me 3-5 days to see a sale. 6 sales a month (120-400 bucks) is not enough to entice me to spend 2 months pumping out 200 sites. Now, I know, proper market research and finding niches with lower competition could yeild far more hops. I’m probably only getting a couple people a day to most of those sniper sites, and only a few hops each couple days from each site. Getting ranked high, either through less competition niches or solid SEO, would mean a dramatic increase in the number of hops.

Different Niches

Different niches will yield different CTR. One niche may have a .02 CTR while another niche may have a 5% CTR. Folks, this is a Huge increase. Higher CTR means less traffic required to make money.

Different Affiliate Products

Not all affiliate products are the same.  With a program like CB, your generally send a person to a landing page. If the vender’s landing page sucks shit, people will not be convinced to buy the product. This is especially true with a sketchy ass program like Click Bank that generally sells Dry Ice Heater Pads for Cancer Sores. What are Dry Ice Heater Pads for Cancer Sores? I sure as hell don’t know — and if the person you are trying to sell said product doesn’t know and the affiliate’s landing page doesn’t do a stellar job at convincing a person to buy Dry Ice Heater Pads for Cancer Sores to give them true happiness, then you won’t get the sale.

Different Monetization

Don’t tie yourself to one form of monetization. If ClickBank sucks for a product, you may want to try eBay, if ebay sucks, Amazon may yeild better, etc. The more IM you do, the more you start to see which affiliate is best suited for each market. For example, CB is good for health/alternative health/MMO — basically products that are shitty and scam people from money. Amazon products were great for reviews — specifically something someone wants to buy new, but is willing to wait a few weeks for much cheaper price. And eBay tends to be good for hard-to-find products or products where people are interested in the absolute cheapest price — even if the product is used. One may affiliate may yeild very high CTR for a niche while another may bomb.

I may actually throw up adsense on all these sites and see what happens, or I may  try ebay out. The point folks, is to fucking test the niches with different affiliates. Always try new thigns — you never know what you are missing if you don’t.

About the CB Project and CTR

I’ve done zero SEO and these sites are basically only getting trickle traffic (a few a day). Some of the sites are getting 10-20 people a day. But overall, I don’t have enough traffic. You can make money off of trickle traffic for sure – I do it all the time with ebay and Adsense. However, you better make SURE your market is responsive and you need enough volume to make that trickle traffic amount to something significant.

Based in my experiences, you need a CTR of 5-20% to do well with trickle traffic. The standard 1% CTR will make you shit money unless you have hundreds of sites. Think of it this way. If your CTR is 1% and you have 100 domains bringing in 100 people a day, you can expect 1 sale/click or whatever. With affiliate sales, that sale will be 20-40 bucks standard. With Adsense, you are going to get at most only a couple bucks.

If it takes 1000 domains to get 1000 people (a grossly low estimation by the way), you can expect 10 sales – and therefore, say 200-400 bucks a day. Not bad money eh?

However, if you end up in wildly unresponsive markets, such as my CB sites, and your CTR end up like .02%, you better divide those profits from 1000 sites by 1/5, which gives you 40-80 bucks a day. A livable income, but for the amount of work it takes for 1000 sites, not fucking worth it.

What does this tell you? You better be fucking sure you can get decent CTR for your sites if you want to rely on trickle. If you end up in the wrong markets, simply massing flinging out 100’s and 1000’s of sites won’t yield you good returns.

Back to CTR. Not too many people want to make 1000 sites to score 40-80 bucks a day. But what if your CTR is around 5%? That means you need 1/5 the sites to make the same money. In this case, we could have 200 sites that make 40-80 bucks a day. Or if the CTR is 10%, 100 sites  that make a combined 40-80 bucks a day.

Now, it’s a bitch to estimate the CTR of any market — it could be so many things — affiliate product, site format, your cover letter/sales pitch/writing, the market itself, etc. The only way is to start launching sites into a market and test to see what the market response is. If the response is good, you can expand into that niche because you have a good idea what the CTR may be.

You actually need to get a decent amount of traffic to really tell — you can do this buy launching an adwords campaign for the term (this could be very expensive if you fuck it up, so I don’t suggest newbies do this), spend a few months SEO’ing a couple sites high to get a lot of organic traffic, or just taking a gamble and pumping out a lot of sites in the niche and see what happens over a few months. Anyways, some food for thought.

So with all this talk about different affiliates yielding different results for some markets, let’s take a look at at a real world example of trying a  different approach to affiliate marketing through another affiliate company: ebay.

Now, the idea behind ebay — or at least my strategy to selling with ebay — is to create a zillion little sites, all geared around topics and keywords that have people already holding their credit cards. My theory is that if a person reaches your ebay site who is looking for a specific product or kind of product and they are presented with ebay pictures of that product/type of product with low prices shown (i.e. auction format), they are likely to click on the link.

Ebay nicely deposits a 7 day cookie into that person’s browser — so even if they don’t buy anything that day, they may well buy something on ebay in a week and you get a sale, commission, or whatever.

With ebay, the uglier the site, the more likely people will click on the pretty pictures. This was the theory behind BANs and ND — a theory that I’ve seen works. However, the problem is that google hates this and is always on the warpath to beath these sites down with the deindex stick. However, ugly and spammy is not the only way — you can still make very good money with ebay by using a wordpress ebaystore plugin like phpBay to create ebay sites with good content that brings targeted traffic to your site (this is actually something I am personally going to do. Phase 1 of my ebay experiment was ND. Phase 2 is to create quality ebay mini sites with phpBay).

The beauty of eBay is that you don’t need a freaking million hops/visitors or whatever to get commision. You simply point a few people a day  towards ebay and watch your commisions rise. This is quite different to ClickBank or Amazon affiliate selling — with those types of affiliate sites, you need to do a pretty damn good job to convince the reader to buy a product — this is especially harder to do with CB than amazon, since CB is so damn shady while Amazon has the brand power and trust.

Let’s look at my Niche Devil ebay stats.

Niche Devil Update

Niche Devil? Remember that?– the supposed scam Vic was putting over his loyal followers to rip them off.  While there was war raged on Grizzly’s MMO blog and Splork’s Make Money Online blog, I figured the program had some merit. Vic has done a lot of good things for the MMO community, so I trust what he has to say.  I predicted that putting several hundred out there would in fact make money based off the trickle traffic. I ended up buying a couple hundred domains and putting about 120-130 of these up. I still have another 100 domains to put up.

Let’s take a look how my ND sites are doing the past 10 days.

nd_thismonth2The force is strong with this one, yes?

Not bad, I’ve made over 200 bucks in 10 days. It took these sites about a month and a half to warm up – but I’ve made a total of about $300 so far, 75% of that the past 10 days. I paid 97 bucks for the software, so I’ve already paid it off and earned an additional 200 bucks. The revenue has skyrocketed this month. Based off what I’ve seen, I should be seeing anywhere between 400-2k this month from ND alone.

An additional benefit of ND: I’ve explored so many niches and found many that look like there is some serious potential with ebay. So I’m deploying my own ebay snipers into some of the best niches I’ve found with ND. Unlike ND though, these are sites that can pass the visual inspection by google.

ND sites are my real time “research” into the best eBay markets. I’m adding an additional 800 or so ND sites

Now, the only thing I am worried about is whether those sites can stay in the G man’s index. Some of my ND sites have been deindexed but the majority seem to have survived Google’s war on affiliate sites though. I hope the new sites I put out stay indexed.

So a message to Vic: Anytime you want to sell some shitty ass software to “rip” people off – let me know, I’ll be first in line to buy it.

If you have missed Niche Devil, I’ve heard the wordpress plugin Caffinated Content does similar things, in regards to populating your blog with insta content like  Niche Devil, but it’s less spammy looking and with far more legit content. I have not used this program yet, but check out this  forum post about it.

You basically add in a keyword and hit a button to populate your blog. Note, you will need an ebay store plugin like phpBay or some amazon store plugin.

I’m actually thinking about getting this plugin and pumping out 100 sites to test it out. Anyone want to join me for a ride?

As an aside, I saw a lot of dithering in the MMO community about ND. And not just ND – about everything. Typical story here – people afraid to risk time and effort on something that might pan out.

I’ve had people asking me if it’s worth spending 100 bucks for 10 domain names, since they might “lose” money. I’ve had people ask if it’s worth spending the 7 bucks a month for a hosting account rather than using blogger blogs.

One thing I’ve noticed: people are afraid of failure here. Based on the questions I get in my forum and in email, people don’t want to try something unless there are guaranteed results.

You know what guys? If you are not willing to take risk, get the fuck out of MMO. You won’t make it if you are not willing to risk your time on some new strategies. I don’t care what anyone in the MMO community tells you – no “formula” is going to make you money.

I keep on hammering on this “no magical formula” point over and over every post I write, because I see time and time again, people want that “get rich quick” pill. Or if not get rich, a guaranteed “retire in Thailand” pill with 6 months of work.

It’s not that simple guys. Not by far.

There are methods that can help lead you to the right path, but at the end of the day, it’s your own god damn brain and hard work that will make you money. I keep on having people ask me to open up some sort of SEO School or pay program to teach you my methods.

What methods are those exactly? My method is as follows: a willingness to work 10x harder than anyone else in this game, the fact I am not afraid to try new things, not too-cheap assed to spend money on domains, tools, and outsourcing to improve my productivity, and a healthy understanding of SEO.

No school is going to make you the money online  guys, it’s your own hard work and willingness to get down and dirty. I’ve seen plenty of people learn all the right techniques, get told all the right things, but at the end of the day, they still don’t make money.

One of the causes for this, I feel, is that people who don’t make money get stuck with indecision and are afraid to take risks. I’ll tell you something I’ve learned: the bigger the risk (maybe your time, maybe your money, etc), the more you can gain. If you are willing to take the “pain” that comes with fucking building a lot of sites and doing SEO, then you won’t see any “gain.”

People, come-on, if you are fucking afraid to risk 100 bucks on some domains and hosting to potentially make some serious money, then go work a no-risk job, maybe a teller at McDonalds or a dishwater at Kentucky Fried Chicken.

In this industry, the risks are pretty damn small – you are not throwing down thousands of dollars here on something that might cost you’re your home. If you are not willing to think big and risk your time (and maybe a little money, god forbid), then enjoy making pennies – it’s probably all you are ever going to make online.

Listen, I don’t talk bull shit to you guys and I never have. When I say take risks with time and money, I don’t do what 99.9% of the other MMO “experts” tell you how to make money. I show you how, with my own hard fucking work. Think of an idea and give it a shot — it may not work, but it just might.

I hope you can see that with some risk and a willingness to work your ass off, there are a lot of rewards. Anyways, back to business.

200 Ebay Snipers in 1 Month

Well, I’ve been really trying to diversify. My initial success into ebay indicates there is a lot of money to be made with these sites. I’ve taken a look at their new quality pricing index. They claim the new quality index is to help ensure the clicks are coming from quality sites.

Pure bullshit. I compared the new quality pricing system to my ebay and found that I’m making abut 190 bucks – a loss of 10 bucks from the original system. Last’s months’ ND earnings, according to the new quality system, actually doubled over the old system!

So, deliver what ebay wants: a lot of clicks from thin, spammy, affiliate sites – it’s exactly what they seem to want.

My legitimate eBay sites actually lost about 50% of their revenue. It seems like the new system fucks people over with big authority type sites that promote ebay products and reward mini ebay sites and thin affiliate sites.

Some notes about the new system, it seems that ebay does NOT give you commission from the sales anymore. From my observations, if you get 200 clicks a day and don’t sell anything big, you make more money with the new system. The old system seems to give you a percentage of the sale as commission or something, as a sale really adds a lot more to your quality score variable. With the new system, you don’t get the massive ARCU value that you did. But, with a lot of clicks and some activity (people sign up, a few small sales) you can still pull in 30-60 bucks a day if you know what you are doing.

Based on what I’ve seen, I think I can game the new system. I’m going to make 200 ebay sniper sites with actual legitimate content. I’m going to try to replicate what I’m doing with ND, but with legitimate sites. I have an idea how to make it work out in my favor. I’m hoping I can end up with 100-300 dollar ebay days with those sites.

For anyone interested, I’ll be using the phpBay wordpress plugin for my snipers — I’ve had good sucess with it in the past for ebay sales with a handful of blogs. I’d like to see what I can do with 200 of these.

I’m going to see if I can start this project next month, in tandem with my authority sites and Adsense blogger sniper project. I’m going to have to outsource the content for this project though, something that’s going to cost me thousands. Ah well, we’ll see if it’s worth the 4k I’m going to pay.

I see my 200 eBay snipers as more of a long term revenue generator than ND sites. I’ve seen you can make a hell of a lot of money with ND sites – but eventually all your ND sites may slowly get zapped by google. My hope is that legitimate, quality driven ebay snipers won’t get the deindex.

Adsense Snipers

I’m adding more and more each day. Still not at 100 sites yet, but I will be in 2 or so weeks, definitely by the end of the month. I’m trying to do 3 projects at once and they are each fighting for time.

We’ll take a look at how much these are earning at the end of the month. I’m definitely making more than I was before, on average. We’ll see how these do with 100 out there and more backlink work. After these 100, I’m going to work on 100 blogger blogs, then 100 pre-owned domain sniper sites. I’ve seen a lot of success during the first phase of this experiment, so I’m keen to see how I can do with all 300 – it will be interesting to compare how bloggers and pre owned domains do.

Authority Site Project

Well, I’ve got 75% of my content for my first authority sites project done. The preowned domain has been purchased and I’m waiting for full control. This is going to be a long term project. I want to slowly shift my long term focus to authority sites because, frankly, that’s exactly what Google wants. Most results in the search engines are dominated by those massive 200-500+ article authority sites.

Now, it’s my experience that a focused sniper site with a decent amount of content and good backlinks will beat an authority site for a single keyword every day. But, I’d rather have a massive site that can rank high right away for any keyword in a niche, rather than have to build an entire site full of content and wait for it to rank. Authority sites, once you get them going, are just way less fucking work.

I’m already looking at next month’s authority site project. I’ve got a stellar pre-owned domain I’m in the process of buying. It’s costing me about 2k, but the value I pay is worth it. I have not really talked about the importance of domain in any of my posts, but let me say that getting the right domain is huge, both for SEO and authority.

Well, that’s about it for today folks. If you haven’t checked out this site’s Internet Marketing Forum, make sure you do. Quite a bit of good information, and best of all, it’s free.

Enjoy your weekend and make money online.


Comments 40

  1. IM Professional September 11, 2009
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